Torrevieja Forum

[Maria B]

The Eurythmics did a song about it. Also called '1984'. whoops thread drift Here's the title in Spanish:

'1984'

[Ellsam]

Ehm... the actual title of the book is "1984"

Spoil sport, I was having fun. What about the translation though, is that wrong as well

[Info]

Jesús I believe the Spanish call it "Tele Basura" but as you know the Spanish have adopted the 'ing' ending for words which sound totally wrong to native English speakers i.e. 'Lifting' for a face lift, 'Parking' for a Car Park as in 'un parking' flipping for skateboarding etc... their latest one of 'Mobbing' at work where we would use harrassment or bullying(which I confess I have never heard Mobbing used in the English language the way the Spanish are using it - mob or mobbed by a crowd at an event etc yes but never 'mobbing' -

Bee

[blanconegro]

Ehm... the actual title of the book is "1984"

Spoil sport, I was having fun. What about the translation though, is that wrong as well

Oops, I'm sorry...

[Jane C]

Perhaps we could agree that Jesus is correct grammatically, but that the expression is an idiomatic translation of the the programme name.

Jesús is correct grammatically that if we want to talk about our elder brother we would say "hermano mayor" or a brother who is physically big "hermano grande". Gran Hermano is also correct gramatically, but does not have the everyday usage of describing ones brother. It is a literary usage, which has now become common currency as a programme title. I believe the programme concept was originally Dutch.

1984 is a superb book and should be required reading for everybody.

Jane

[Jane C]

Just re-read the above and I sound like an irate teacher ( )

I do understand what Jesus is getting at, but I just don't agree with saying that no-one would ever use something in any situation whatsoever. Not all language is everyday language, and if we all thought like that there would be no creativity. If something is grammatically correct then its use is a possibility.

I mean, what if someone had told Orwell that he couldn't write "Big Brother is watching you" because it wasn't correct English and he should specify whose big brother

As an aside Ellsam, I would translate it as "El Gran Hermano te vigila" (I think the tú form makes it more threatening)

There, had my say and got my tin hat on ready for Jesus's response.

Jane

[Maria B]

Jesús I believe the Spanish call it "Tele Basura" but as you know the Spanish have adopted the 'ing' ending for words which sound totally wrong to native English speakers i.e. 'Lifting' for a face lift, 'Parking' for a Car Park as in 'un parking' flipping for skateboarding etc... their latest one of 'Mobbing' at work where we would use harrassment or bullying(which I confess I have never heard Mobbing used in the English language the way the Spanish are using it - mob or mobbed by a crowd at an event etc yes but never 'mobbing' -

Bee

I agree Info/Bee I could never help being mildly irritated (ok, drop the mild!) by the misuse of English words by the Spanish. At best it causes confusion, to English speakers anyway Words such as 'parking' being used as you explain, and as I'm sure Jane can confirm, have been used that way for years. I hadn't heard the 'mobbing' one, which must be another misunderstanding of flash mobbing for some reason.

I was flicking through a Spanish mag of Mr Maria B's yesterday and there was an advertisement for a new range of watches called 'Big Tic'.

Pleeessse

PS Jesus: the magazine was called 'Muy Interesante' , which is ok! But they have recently launched another mag called 'Muy Historia'.

Shall we hang them, or....?

[Maria B]

Just re-read the above and I sound like an irate teacher

Jane, you don't - you clearly have a lot of patience when teaching. I tried teaching so I know I don't have it, and I couldn't explain things as well

[Jesus]

Just re-read the above and I sound like an irate teacher ( )

I do understand what Jesus is getting at, but I just don't agree with saying that no-one would ever use something in any situation whatsoever. Not all language is everyday language, and if we all thought like that there would be no creativity. If something is grammatically correct then its use is a possibility.

I mean, what if someone had told Orwell that he couldn't write "Big Brother is watching you" because it wasn't correct English and he should specify whose big brother

As an aside Ellsam, I would translate it as "El Gran Hermano te vigila" (I think the tú form makes it more threatening)

There, had my say and got my tin hat on ready for Jesus's response.

Jane

Here is Jesus response:

All that about creativity etc could be very good if we were talking about some sort of high level of learning but if we take as a base that we need to learn to walk before we learn to run.....I believe to this guys (all Spanish new and medium learner), this sort of things can do more harm than good

Should they no first learn to talk the popular way before they get converted into world famous writers?

Jesus

[Jesus]

PS Jesus: the magazine was called 'Muy Interesante' , which is ok! But they have recently launched another mag called 'Muy Historia'.

Shall we hang them, or....?
---------------------------------------------------

We should most definitely hand them on. NOT just for the horrible use of the Spanish language but also for their HUGE lack of creativity, literary or otherwise

Jesus

[Jane C]

All that about creativity etc could be very good if we were talking about some sort of high level of learning but if we take as a base that we need to learn to walk before we learn to run.....I believe to this guys (all Spanish new and medium learner), this sort of things can do more harm than good

Should they no first learn to talk the popular way before they get converted into world famous writers?

Jesús, I disagree with you so much I don't know where to start.

Firstly, you should never, ever mistake people who are beginning to learn a language for people who are not capable of understanding other concepts. This is principle number one when teaching adults. If you only spoonfeed what, in your opinion, they are capable of understanding, or you pre-judge what they wish to know about, you are patronising them (and are closer than you know to the spirit of BB).

Secondly - explaining clearly something that is complicated, is far less confusing that telling people something is wrong, when it can in fact be right. You can do this without abandoning your main point about "what most Spanish people say most of the time". There's no harm is saying - "this is possible, it means xyz in certain situations, BUT WHAT MOST SPANISH PEOPLE SAY IS abc." If you go beyond that to say something is incorrect because Spanish people (in your experience) don't say it - that is when it gets confusing.

Thirdly - off the point of Spanish, I know, but I would never call the writings of George Orwell "some high level of learning". Yes, he wrote novels, but they were written in plain, simple English that could be read by anyone and had a social message that is as relevant today as when it was written. I would recommend you or anyone else to read "1984" in its original plain English or in a plain Spanish translation. The language is no more difficult than half the things you read on the internet or in a newspaper and probably a lot more interesting.

And finally, there are thousands and thousands of examples of literary language in popular speech and it can be interesting to know where they come from, as it often helps us to understand the meaning. Gran Hermano is just one example.

Jane

[mariac]

Watched it again last night not great those two women squabbling is too much for me, I like it when they all party and get drunk