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By happyhotspur
#1118790
Does anybody know where I can get some definitive advice about the HPA in particular Article 17
Our administrators have given us some information that when I read the English interpretation of the HPA it seemed to contradict what our administrators informed us so i just want to ensure our community is comply with the rules correctly.
PM me please
Thanks
By Info
#1118791
What in particular is the contradiction? It's the function of the Administrator to be up-to-date with the Ley H P. Presumably your Administrator is fully licenced. Article 17 also seems to be governed by Article 10.1. I presume your query is to do with the installation or update of new communication infrastructure or services. Jimbo1916 should be able to advise you.

Bee
By happyhotspur
#1118798
No my query is about how we vote at AGM's
Our admins informed us that to pass any resolution or community rule we needed 3/5th of the total owners votes (68 eligible to vote) in favour of a proposal but the most we have ever had attend an AGM including any proxy votes is 21, and on that basis we cannot make any community rules or change anything as we will never get the 3/5th
I thought the 3/5ths applied only to those that attend the meeting plus any proxy votes submitted and anybody else who did not vote their vote was accepted as a agreement to the proposal, but our admin informed us that these votes do not count towards the proposal. If that is the case how would we ever be able to make decisions at our AGM's
Our AGM's are always conducted on the second call basis.
So I was just trying to obtain clarity on their information of needed 3/5ths of the total owners eligible to vote which in our case would be 41 votes in favour of any proposal.
How do other communities count their voting under the HPA
By happyhotspur
#1118803
Thanks for the link freddo much appreciated and I knew that a simple majority was allowable at AGM's its just that our administrators seem to be following different guidelines and nobody (except myself) seems willing to question their interpretation of HPA law.
I just wish I could get some legal service to give me the answers that I can present to our Administrators as they just ignore whatever an owners tries to suggest to them.
I wouldn't mind but they have been our administrators for over ten years and only this year have they come up with this new interpretation.
Maybe an ulterior motive is behind their information or its time we changed administrators
Thanks again
By Jimbo1916
#1118808
The 3 /5 vote applies when a community wants to change one of the statutes of the community. Ordinary points on the agenda can be proposed and votes on with a simple majority.
We will be using the 3/5 vote at our next AGM and our Administrator explained it thus.
A motion is proposed and voted on by whoever is at the AGM. The result of the vote is then sent to all the owners. The absentee owners will then have the opportunity to vote and must return any votes within four weeks,
If an owner does not return his vote within the four weeks he will be deemed to have voted in favour of the motion.
By happyhotspur
#1118814
Jimbo1916 now that makes sense but our administrators actually said that non attendees votes do not count towards a vote and therefore we still needed 41 owners out of 68 to vote in favour of any motion.
I know they are wrong but nobody else is willing to question them, hence I wanted some legal evidence to produce to the administrators, to show them they are incorrect
By Jimbo1916
#1118815
Internal community administration and democratic process
There are 3 basic aspects regulating the community

The owners of a community are required to designate the representatives of the community (chairman, secretaries and administrators) complying with the criteria for choosing them (election, rotation…)
The community must hold a general meeting at least once a year for deciding budgets and to manage problems which have occurred during the previous period.
The buyer of a resale property will assume the previous owner’s debts and unpaid bills from the community.
The democratic process and the decision-making revolve around the “general meeting of the community”. By law it must meet at least once a year as a General meeting in order to approve the accounts, agree on the budget for the following year and to deal with any pending matters or other matters raised by a board member or a community member. The law dictates the procedure for calling the meeting and notifying the owners of the agenda.

During the meetings all decisions are made by votes from the attendants. Owners that cannot attend can delegate their votes to other members of the community or another person. If you cannot be in Spain for the meeting it is recommendable to delegate your vote to a person you can trust, for example your property lawyer.

It is important to notice that the owners in debt to the community can attend the meeting but do not have the right to vote.

The Law on Horizontal Property consider three different types of vote:

Unanimity vote
Simple Majority vote
3/5 majority vote
The unanimity vote is used only for the following cases:

Changes in the community shares assigned to the different properties.
Changes in the statutes of the community
Changes from communal to private elements
The 3/5 majority vote is used for the establishment or suppression of specific services like lifts, caretakers, guards or other common services of general interest, even if this means a change in the statutes. Disposing of communal elements that have no specific use in the property is also subject to the 3/5 majority vote.

All other decisions can be made by simple majority. Additionally any kind of work related to the suppression of architectonical barriers for handicapped people can be made by a simple majority vote even if it involves changes in the statutes.

http://www.velascolawyers.com/en/proper ... -work.html
By happyhotspur
#1118816
That is brilliant thanks Jimbo1916 I knew our administrators were incorrect in their interpretation of the HPA
I have studied it for several month and come to the same conclusions as you have supplied via the Spanish legal company you quoted from and am now in touch with them
Thanks again
I think its time our administrators were changed if this is there advice
By Jimbo1916
#1118817
You're welcome happyhotspur.
There have been some changes though in the way a community can change it's statutes.
No doubt your community is like mine and many others in that there is a lot of complaints about renters. Not family or friends but renters through the internet or Facebook . .. The owner has no control over these peope and is only concerned in making money and doesn't care less what his renters are up to.
After being the President of our community for twenty years I know that if I'm going to get any problems it would from them. We have one problem renter.
But the only way you could ban a owner from renting on a commercial basis was with a 100% majority vote because it involved a change of statute. Well no owner is going to vote to ban himself .
Well lo and behold, to addres s this problem the Spanish governent issued a Royal Decree ,in December last year that communties wanting to ban owners renting for money only needed a 3/5 majority .. It was like winning the lottery and there was also another Decree passed making said renters pay an extra 20% community charge because they are in affect running a business from their property.
The date for our AGM was set for February 14 and all the notices were sent out outling the agenda .... when bugger me if the Spanish Parliament rescinded all the decrees as unsuitable.
Well to save face I did warn the owner at the AGM that contrary to the latest developments we could still ban him under our own laws and he had one last chance or he's out.
Well bugger me again if the Spanish Parliament didn't passed the Decrees with a slight modifcation a week later !!!
By happyhotspur
#1118820
OMG its a minefield our there. Our administrators did mention something about owners who rent out their properties but by then the uproar they had created with this 3/5ths thing that information really got lost.
Funnily enough at last years AGM our administrators informed us that we did not have any Statutes and we should ignore any references to statues and we followed the HPA
I thought that was a bit strange as we need statues to ensure all the areas that are the communities responsibility as opposed to individual owners, but they informed us differently. So we do not have statues and therefore the 3/5th rule is not applied
By Jimbo1916
#1118823
In that case then a simple majority vote is all you need to propose and vote on.
Meaning that if you have ten or fifty owners at an AGM as long as the owners present, along with an proxy votes , vote , with a majority to carry the proposal through .. then that`s it ...its carried. I
I`ve said this before on here...we have out AGM in my lounge every St Valentines Day.
In twenty years of being President I`ve never seen more than six people at the AGM. More often than not there is just myself and David the Administrator. We had people here on holiday but couldn`t be arsed to walk round to my house to attend the meeting.
We have a couple of beers .. a glass or two of brandy and then we get down to business which normally lasts about twenty minutes.
I have the proxy vote of around fifteen owners but David said that all that`s needed to carry the motion is just one proxy vote and my vote.....two.
And that is how we have conducted business for twenty years and the fact that I`m STILL President and he is STILL the Administrator means that we doing something right :D
Something else for you to peruse in this hot weather.... :wink:

https://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/ ... nhold-law/
By Kinchy
#1118865
jimbo wrote
The community must hold a general meeting at least once a year for deciding budgets and to manage problems which have occurred during the previous period.

So what if a Community President and Administrators have allowed the next AGM to be held in late August 2019 when the last AGM was held on June 14th 2018?
Is this against the HPL?

Also the Administrators based in Cabo Roig] are absolute and total pathetic crap.
By Info
#1119504
Do you mean bar someone? I would think only if there is a court order in place barring someone for whatever reason. A tenant has the same rights in law as any other householder. Is there maybe a history between the landlord and the person concerned for some reason?

Bee
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