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By TVTechnology
#1114018
I think it's quite simple.

If you are old, you get stuck in your 'ways' you hark back to 'when I was a lad' you refer to times past, that can never be again. That is why pensioners in the main (assuming also the highest readership of the Daily Mail) - voted out. Rose tinted spectacles.

Now the majority of younger generations voted in. Why, perhaps they look more to the future, positivity - jobs, opportunities between borders used to seeing more integration - perhaps dare I SAY we were all a little more open-minded when younger.

So irrespective of the EU overall arguments - an older generation has decided the path for the generations after them?

I'm not entirely comfortable with that - after all, you only have to make a few BS comments about immigration and NHS core to pensioners and hey ho - you've turned the UK's economy upon it's head.

There is a complete lack of understanding on so many levels, it's difficult to know where to begin. What I do know, is the UK has been at peace & grown very well financially within the EU trade mechanism and that is why UK is (was) in a good position we are in now in BECAUSE OF THE EU TRADING TERMS - To turn your back and walk headlong into the unknown, is already impacting UK business, jobs and large long term investment, is just not thought through. Surely better to work within to fix, rather than to wipe 15+ years off your economy, as that's how long if it goes well, it will take to get everything predicted to back in order! So many unknowns, with the irony being quite a high percentage of those who voted out, won't even live to see the long term effect of their vote.

Still not much any of us can do now - other than hope for the best. Perhaps some things should be more carefully thought through before presented for a vote, this as it's panning out has made the UK go from a relative powerhouse within the EU, to a secondary trading partner with the EU, but on the basis we can negotiate better elsewhere and adds up to more - lots of hope, wrapped up in nothing - sounds like religion to me :wink:
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By Sheff_Blade
#1114025
TVTechnology wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:54 am
I think it's quite simple.
You just know that anything that begins with that sentence has got to be a simplistic load of gross generalisations, and unfounded assumptions, wrapped-up in a 'I-know-better-than-you-and-if-you-disagree-then-you-must-be-thick' attitude.

Firstly you dismiss ALL of the population older than 50 (60?) as senile old racists when some might argue that at least some of them have wisdom with age and experience. Some of us older ones even remember the day when the EU was a free-trade area not a bureaucratic kingdom lead by drunken idiots such as Junker.

Secondly you seem to live live in an ideal little world where the EU is an economic paradise and leaving is equivalent to jumping off a high cliff. There is as much uncertainty and economic crisis in the EU. Germany the power-house of europe in recession; surely not? Greece still a basket case and Italy heading there. Spain in the doldrums, etc etc. The EU budget is at crisis point even without Brexit; there is little doubt we would lose our rebate even if we stayed, and the idiots want to spend even more on an EU army!
By TVTechnology
#1114031
Sheff - you get so emotional - time of the month ? :wink:

We probably do need to spend money on an integrated army and cyber security for certain - at this stage we don't even really now how much external influence affected the Brexit - Russia, has seemingly done a marvellous job in disrupting the west and turning us against each other. How much did this play a part in the feeling of the country with Brexit - we will never know the real truth, other than they have tried to manipulate all of us.

Social media has become a weapon, where those who are crying 'FAKE NEWS' are the purveyors of it.

Sheff - No, of course, I don't think everyone who does not share the same opinion as me is either a moron or a racist. There are however morons and racists out there & that's a fact. :wink: Unfortunately, they get to vote too.

Brexit, will just help accelerate stress, bad behaviour towards each other, separatism - but it's just a reflection, like Mr. Trump of where we really are at presently - spiralling downwards.

It seems very little positive politicians out there looking to bring us together as planet and a species - next arms race, is proceeding. Why :?: So the Americans can make more guns which end up in the hands of their enemies - and around the merry go round we go.
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By Sheff_Blade
#1114055
TVTechnology wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:34 pm
Sheff - you get so emotional - time of the month ? :wink:

We probably do need to spend money on an integrated army and cyber security for certain - at this stage we don't even really now how much external influence affected the Brexit - Russia, has seemingly done a marvellous job in disrupting the west and turning us against each other. How much did this play a part in the feeling of the country with Brexit - we will never know the real truth, other than they have tried to manipulate all of us.

Social media has become a weapon, where those who are crying 'FAKE NEWS' are the purveyors of it.

Sheff - No, of course, I don't think everyone who does not share the same opinion as me is either a moron or a racist. There are however morons and racists out there & that's a fact. :wink: Unfortunately, they get to vote too.

Brexit, will just help accelerate stress, bad behaviour towards each other, separatism - but it's just a reflection, like Mr. Trump of where we really are at presently - spiralling downwards.

It seems very little positive politicians out there looking to bring us together as planet and a species - next arms race, is proceeding. Why :?: So the Americans can make more guns which end up in the hands of their enemies - and around the merry go round we go.
Cheeky!

So talking of fake news, the EU Army wasn't a figment of imagination in our rabid, Brexiteer minds? Another remainer lie perhaps? Or just fake news?
By rspltd
#1114060
An interesting post by TV Technology but it relies on information that is dubious to say the least. He refers to the old being stuck in their ways (surely then they would want to stay in the Eu?) and then alleges that the young voted to leave. Where does this information come from bearing in mind that no-one was asked their age at the polling station.? The culprit appears to be Youguv that well known data mining company – the same one who two hours before the referendum finished were predicting a landslide for Remain. They interviewed 250 people in the south of England of whom about 50 could be described as young people. Of those that responded, there was a small majority in favour of leaving and so Yougov’s computers extrapolated the results over the four nations of the UK and came up with this erroneous conclusion. They pay £50 and you can join their voting panel and take part in their surveys which begs the question how representative are those people who have joined. Nevertheless Yougov keep the money rolling in and according to them repel Fake News!!!!
So lets look at some of the other statements – “the UK has been at peace & grown very well financially within the EU trade mechanism”. I wonder if the approximately £450 billion that the UK has paid since she joined could have been put to better use in the UK? For those of us with a slightly longer memory we remember the wine lakes, the butter mountain , the olive acreage scandal, the inefficient Cap and the scams are still coming :

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/0 ... -national/

I wonder if one asked a young person in Spain or someone from Greece if they had benefitted from the Eu despite all the money that has been thrown at them, what their answer would be?? There will still be trading with the Eu (although if they put their current Trade Commissioner in charge of it – she is a Swedish Political Science lecturer) it could take 7 yers which seems to be the average for an agreement. Given this latest report from a German economic think tank I think Mrs Merkel will be most interested in getting one signed and sealed.

https://www.thelocal.de/20190211/no-dea ... g-to-study

Where the UK will be at an advantage will be that it will be able to make deals with the rest of the world. I don’t think it will mind be a secondary trading nation alongside the likes of the USA, India, China and Japan.

TV T also said the UK has gone from a relative powerhouse within the EU, to a secondary trading partner with the EU. Once the UK had a veto but now most decisions are taken by majority. One only has to watch the excellent series by the BBC on the last 10 years of the EU to see how the recipient Eastern bloc countries were threatened with loss of subsidies if they didn’t take what was perceived as their share of immigrants. Of course those people they did take have now got EU citizenship and have moved to the richer EU countries under free movement. Blackmail is still alive and well in the EU.

Finally we turn to the influence of the EU Court of Justice. With an ever increasing backlog of cases (of which Germany seems to have the most) it continues to interpret the law rather than administer it. A little known fact is that the judges and their advocates are immune from legal prosecution both whilst they are in the job and for perpetuity thereafter.

So will the EU blink first I believe so. There is pressure not only from Germany and France but Ireland. Norway in particular is concerned as 60% of it’s fish catch is caught in UK waters . Britain has nothing to fear but with Italy in recession and the German economy heading that way, the EU will do all they can to get their hands on the £39 billion that is being dangled in front of them
By rspltd
#1114071
I neglected to add this published letter by Stephen Bush, Emeritus Professor of Manufacture, University of Manchester.
Regarding the economic benefits of EU membership of the single market, the latest office for National Statistics figures for trade for 2106 give a Uk goods (mainly manufacturers ) trade deficit with the EU of £95.6bn, having grown remorselessly from £5bn in 1993, the year the single market was introduced. Over the same period of 24 years the U.S. grew it’s goods exports to the EU by over 40%, in constant dollar (real) price terms, without any special access, just paying the tariffs on its goods while conforming to EU standards. In the same period the Uk, with all the supposed benefits of single market access, increased its goods exports by a tiny 5% on the same constant dollar price terms.

A different view altogether.
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