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By freddo
#1112487
what treason has she committed and f course I voted Remain as anyone with a brain in their heads would have done as far as I am concerned the UK was doing very well in the EU we just need to tell our MEPs to do the job they were very well paid to do which they were not doing .
I am quite prepared to accept the vote of the majority just a pity the options were not explained to the voters before they voted but of course no one knew what was going to be the outcome
However there is still a chance that the whole mess will get turned over to a second vote ,we live in hope very slim :) :)
#1112492
Same old, same old!
freddo wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:48 pm
.... the UK was doing very well in the EU ....
You mean the UK is doing very well despite being in the EU. Note that we are still doing better than the EU despite the BREXIT vote and all that project fear predicted.

The EU has a lead weight attached called the Euro. It is becoming a two tier membership and they need to start applying budgetary constraints on member states to sort it out. They will eventually have to apply these rules to non-Euro members as well to keep the level playing field. Things would have got/will get worse for the UK if we stay in. There's a new EU army to pay for (despite claims this would not happen), and the UK would/will be the first to be asked to pay up.

You would also have seen the rebate disappear if we had stayed in, and also almost certainly if we remain.
freddo wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:48 pm
I am quite prepared to accept the vote of the majority .....
Obviously not!
freddo wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:48 pm
..... a pity the options were not explained to the voters before they voted ...
Again, the same old story. How many times do we have to go through this? Everybody, on both sides, said a vote to leave meant leaving the single market and leaving the customs union. What options are there that were not explained?
By Kinchy
#1112497
what treason has she committed
Where did I state treason? Please elaborate.

and f course I voted Remain as anyone with a brain in their heads would have done [/b
Such arrogant condescending comments - just oh so typical of the remainiacs to insult those that have had the timerity to disagree with them. :shock:

]as far as I am concerned the UK was doing very well in the EU we just need to tell our MEPs to do the job they were very well paid to do which they were not doing .

I need to add no more to sheff blades great reply on this comment, other than ask freddo if he has visited towns and cities in the UK where migrants are causing collapse of the infrastructure - schools, GP;s surgeries A+E units, housing - yes doing very well with that one eh?
#1112508
freddo wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:36 am
The UK did not have to leave the EU to stop migrants entering the country, that's why they have Border Force
The UK DID have to leave the EU to stop EU migrants. Not that it's an important issue for me.

Border Force manage the process; they are nothing to do with policy and hence irrelevant.
By Kinchy
#1112510
I stated Migrants not EU migrants

anyone need any hairs splitting ?

Border Force have NO control of who enters from the EU27 and you know that as well as anyone. EU migrants into the UK (particularly from the Eastern States) have increased the UK total population by an average of 300k per year.

The infrastructure just cannot keep pace with this number. I have no problem per say with CONTROLLED immigration but not a totally open door policy over which the UK has NO control due to the EUSSR's diktats.
#1112511
freddo wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:31 pm
I stated Migrants not EU migrants
You did indeed state "migrants" without any qualification which was why you were incorrect. The UK government (and Border Force for that matter) have no power to stop EU migrants and this was one reason why some people voted to leave. If you're going to make sweeping statements you should at least try to be accurate.
By Kinchy
#1112512
I forgot to bring this piece of information to you freddo, and YOU wonder why all those knuckle dragging leave voting morons voted the way they did?

She told the event, titled ‘Parliamentarianism Between Globalisation and National Sovereignty’: "In this day nation states must today - should today, I say - be ready to give up sovereignty.
"But of course in an orderly procedure.”

Mrs Merkel said that countries who think “they can solve everything on their own” are simply nationalistic and not patriotic because they “only think about themselves.”
She said: "Either you are one of those who believe they can solve everything on their own and only have to think about themselves. That is nationalism in its purest form.
“This is not patriotism. Because patriotism is if you include others in the German interest and accept win-win situations."

Nuff said!!
By freddo
#1112513
Sheff_Blade wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:57 pm
freddo wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:31 pm
I stated Migrants not EU migrants
You did indeed state "migrants" without any qualification which was why you were incorrect. The UK government (and Border Force for that matter) have no power to stop EU migrants and this was one reason why some people voted to leave. If you're going to make sweeping statements you should at least try to be accurate.
According to this the UK and Border Force do have the power to stop EU migrants coming to the UK

Jon Danzig
Journalist

Like
Campaign to Remain - keep Britain in Europe






Reasons2Remain
16 March ·
→ Britain can remove or refuse entry to EU migrants - please share
WE DON'T HAVE OPEN BORDERS
It’s a Brexit myth that Britain has open borders to all citizens from the rest of the EU, or that ‘free movement of people’ is entirely free.
Although a cherished right of EU citizenship, ‘free movement’ across our continent is not unfettered, and it can be restricted under existing EU rules.
For one thing, Britain is not part of the Schengen Agreement, and so we do not have open borders. Everyone entering or leaving Britain must go through passport control, and EU citizens are checked before they’re allowed in.
This was confirmed by Theresa May, then Home Secretary, when she appeared on the BBC’s Andrew Marr show just before the EU referendum and said:
“We check people at our borders, but what matters at our borders is that you have the information about people that enables you to make that decision about whether somebody should be allowed into the UK or not.
“We are more likely to have that information if we’re inside the European Union.”
(∞ Source Andrew Marr, BBC: news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/24041602.pdf)
EU migrants are not allowed to arrive in Britain and start claiming benefits. They have to be able to afford to come here without resorting to state funds.
Furthermore, Britain has the right to refuse entry, or to remove from the country, EU migrants on the grounds of public policy, public security and public health.
David Cameron’s agreed EU reforms made this much easier, although strangely, we heard nothing about them during the referendum campaign. (∞ See FullFact: www. fullfact.org/eu…/explaining-eu-deal-deporting-eu-immigrants/)
The government’s own website confirms that, “EU nationals may be returned for not exercising, or abusing, Treaty rights, or for deportation on public policy grounds (such as criminality).”
In the three years from March 2014 to March 2017, the UK removed 12,585 EU nationals (∞ Source: https://www.gov.uk/…/how-many-people-ar ... -or-return…)
So, it’s nonsense to claim that EU nationals have the right to move to the UK and cannot be removed under any circumstances.
(Since the referendum, however, the UK government has been accused of a “nasty” crackdown on removing more EU nationals than entitled under the rules. A high court ruled this week that this was illegal. ∞ Source: huffingtonpost.co.uk/…/high-court-rules-home-office-removal…)
Here’s a summary of the basic facts about EU migration to the UK:
• Contrary to popular belief and media misconception, EU law does not permit EU citizens to move to another Member State and immediately claim benefits. On the contrary, there are specific arrangements within EU law to prevent people from misusing the benefits systems of other EU states. (These rules are covered by Regulation EC/883/2004 of the EU.)
• EU migrants to the UK have to pass an ‘Habitual Residence Test’. Just arriving in the UK doesn’t give a migrant any rights.
• EU nationals enjoy a right to reside in the UK for up to three months so long as they do not become an unreasonable burden on the social assistance system. They can then only legally stay longer if they are jobseekers; workers; self-employed; students; self-sufficient; permanent residents (i.e. legally here for more than five years); or family members of one of the above.
• A European Commission Study concluded that there was “little evidence” to show that “the main motivation of EU citizens to migrate and reside in a different member state is benefit-related”. Most migrants who move to the UK do so to work or study – the same reason that most people from the UK move to other parts of the EU.
• EU immigrants from Central Europe to the UK are around 60% less likely than British natives to receive state benefits, or tax credits, or to live in social housing. (A few years ago, there were more British people claiming unemployment benefit in Germany than Polish people claiming it in Britain.)
• Three times the EU Commission asked the British government for evidence of so-called ‘benefit tourism’, but the UK government was unable to provide any.
Most citizens here from the rest of Europe are in gainful employment and make a substantial net contribution to our economy.
Research published by the Centre of Economic Performance, part of the London School of Economics, revealed that EU migrants pay more in taxes than they use public services and therefore help to reduce the budget deficit. (∞ Source: http://cep.lse.ac.uk/BREXIT/press1.asp?index=5053)
EU migration to the UK is already well controlled by the jobs market. If there are no jobs, EU migrants mostly don’t come, or they mostly don’t stay.
That’s why Nigel Farage’s claim that 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians could come to the UK was nothing more than scaremongering. Such numbers will never come to Britain for the simple reason that we’ll never have 29 million job vacancies.
(We do, however, have a record 823,000 job vacancies – far more than can be filled by British workers alone. Source: ∞ https://www.ons.gov.uk/…/bulle…/uklabou ... bruary2018…).
And another point: Stopping free movement of citizens from the rest of the EU coming here will not only cause huge damage to our economy and the ability of our businesses to hire sufficient staff, it will also mean WE lose the right to live, work, study or retire across our continent.
Already millions of Britons have made use of that right. Because after all, ‘free movement of people’ isn’t just a one-way trip.
Yes, citizens from the rest of the EU can come here, but Britons can also go there. Once the UK leaves the EU, that right will be lost.
• Words and graphic by Jon Danzig
By Kinchy
#1112517
A long and meaningless diatribe no more no less.
So to back up this very long cut and paste article, can you if possible inform us how many criminals/ unwanted EU citizens were either refused entry or deported.
Using fingers and toes, you may still have some left over :shock:
If you and your remainer friends want the UK to remain a part of the EUSSR, then the UK will HAVE to accept Schengen/ The Euro/ The ECJ/ The full harmonisation of taxation under an EU Finance Minister/ No ability to strike independent trade deals./ Compelled to be part of an EU Army (controlled by God knows who)/remain a part of the pernicious CAP and CFP.

Bear in mind re this EU Army, France and Germany DO NOT repeat NOT fulfil their commitments to 2% of GDP to NATO and are cosily happy to let the USA especially carry the burden along with those nations (the UK being one) who make the payments - what cras hypocrisy from Macron and Merkel!!!

The UK will become a colony of the EUSSR and that would blend in perfectly with Mutti Merkels call for nations to surrender their sovereignty - but then again the Germans and of course the French have superior knowledge of surrender eh? :shock:
Yet YOU freddo have the arrogance to call leave voters as only having half a brain :oops:
#1112518
Well I certainly can't be @rsed reading through that. But picking a couple of obvious points up from this: checking passports at the border is hardly "power to stop" and, we can refuse entry to criminals and people with the black death, big deal.

Jobs, benefits, housing, welfare etc are related but separate issues. The EU is supposed to be about freedom of movement so we cannot stop EU migrants unless we leave - end of.

As I said in an earlier email I'm really not bothered about migration so I don't know why you're banging on about it or why I'm spending time answering.
By Kinchy
#1112520
Good reply sheff, but there are many many folks who are seriously concerned about immigration. My own family in Boston Lincs particularly (one of the highest vote leave areas in the UK)

Regarding Mutti Merkels deplorable comments here is a bit of historical FACT for freddo to read and digest from 1996 and the former Chancellor Helmut Kohl.

"The future will belong to the Germans... ...when we build the House of Europe. In the next two years, we will make the process of European integration irreversible. This is a really big battle but it is worth the fight".

Merkel was his star protégée and is presumably intent on carrying out the dearest wish of her mentor.

WE are now looking towards the FOURTH REICH - God help the UK
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