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Re: Brexit

PostPosted:Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:36 pm
by Sheff_Blade
A very good, reasoned set of arguments. Just a couple I particularly disagree with.
Mrs Nelson wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:16 am
.... Look at the past when Britain was ruling the world, did they share the wealth? I don’t think so.
You are dismissing the 'trickle-down' argument for the benefits of capitalism. I think you only have to look around and consider the differences between poverty of 100 years ago and today. I don't see young kids roaming the streets with no shoes and terrace houses with no inside bathroom and toilet. Everybody has benefited from economic growth over the years, even the poor.
Mrs Nelson wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:16 am
... and the countryside should be urbanized now ........
I don't agree that we need to urbanise the countryside if that's what you mean. There are plenty of brownfield sites for new housing etc.

Re: Brexit

PostPosted:Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:00 pm
by Kinchy
Sheff Blade
I agree totally with those two points.
I came from a home with no bathroom, just a two up two down, which anyone in the UK would not even consider living in.
There are across the city I spend half my year in, a considerable amount of brownfield sites and the urbanisation of the countryside would be a national scandal and would be a deplorable heritage to leave to those that will come after we are long gone.
Housing is a national crisis along with the NHS and Education. Hence my fervent backing to leave the EUSSR and stop paying a net amount of approx. £8 billion, when that money could and should be spent here to alleviate these crises.


[b]You present good arguments but they are wasted on me, as I just don’t think the Brexit you guys want is going to happen, and so you are not going to sway me. I’m well aware of the impacts of undercutting, I deal with it every day of my life here, but I have seen how it affects wages in the uk too, but I can’t see a mass exodus of polish builders happening, and yes I would like to see more control on immigration and the handout system that seems to attract many.


[/i]
I do not advocate a mass exodus of any EU WORKERS from the UK, but what I do advocate and support is a robust control of unskilled people coming to the UK and expecting to receive all the same benefits without having made any or hardly any contributions to the exchequer.

What I don’t understand from you kinchy, is how you are atacking the very foundation of the politics you support to win this argument, the beloved free market economy, are you suggesting that post Brexit we won’t use polish trucks and drivers and that employers will be falling all over themselves to pay Brit drivers more, come on mate we are trying to attain friction free trading with europe, and the rest of the world, nothing is going to change, people in the uk want to import cheap gear and services to make a huge profit in the uk, they don’t want to pay Brits to build better quality gear or provide quality service because there is not enough in it for them. Look at the past when Britain was ruling the world, did they share the wealth? I don’t think so.

I refer to Sheff Blades comments on this point.

I agree that immigration puts a huge pressure on the nhs education and housing and for that reason I think it should be controlled and the countryside should be urbanized now to deal with the huge underinvestment of the past. More houses more clinics, I’m not bothered about anyone’s view or property value, I think it’s time that you guys agreed that no one knows what they voted for and just wait and see what we ultimately accept, I hope it resembles what you guys wished for, but I can’t see it

You think its time we agreed that those voting Leave did NOT know what they were voting for?
That really is an incredibly patronising comment and could be asked to the 48% that voted to stay, but I have not yet heard anyone ask them, apart from the has been politicians aka Bliar, Clegg Cable Mandelsohn, Soubry - all supported by George Soros.

Re: Brexit

PostPosted:Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:49 pm
by Sheff_Blade
Kinchy wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:00 pm
You think its time we agreed that those voting Leave did NOT know what they were voting for?
I suspect everybody on both sides of the argument knew what THEY were voting for and their vision of the result, and I agree what actually happens may not be what they expected. BUT, I believe this would have been equally true if we had voted to remain. There was a very good chance that if Remain had won the referendum, then the EC would have taken that as a vote of confidence and an opportunity to push the limits: an end to the UK rebate, all members forced to join the Euro, more interference in individual members' economic policies (GDP spend, corporation tax etc), the EU army etc etc. So the concept that the remainers 'knew what they were voting for' is just as wrong.

Re: Brexit

PostPosted:Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:56 pm
by Mrs Nelson
Do us a favour lads , trickle down wealth, don’t make me laugh, the conditions for the poor were improved because employers didn’t want syph and typhoid ridden workers coming in to work and spreading their illness around the factories, it’s bad for profit you know when the workers fall in to the machines and halt production. :!: :wink: I haven’t been to port sunrise for a while so I’m not 100 % sure, but wasn’t this village built without a pub? And if so why ?


As for knowing what you voted for you didn’t know then and you don’t know now,

If you knew back then, you would be aware of the final settlement of the irish border, what trading deal we will have with europe and how much we might pay to trade with them if at all or if we were just going to leave Europe’s trading sector and just go straight to the back of beyond, but be honest you don’t know do you. You have hopes and dreams, I hope they come true, I’m sorry I’m not trying to insult you or wind you up.

Kev

Re: Brexit

PostPosted:Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:12 pm
by Burrababa
Mrs Nelson wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:56 pm
As for knowing what you voted for you didn’t know then and you don’t know now,

If you knew back then, you would be aware of the final settlement of the irish border, what trading deal we will have with europe and how much we might pay to trade with them if at all or if we were just going to leave Europe’s trading sector and just go straight to the back of beyond, but be honest you don’t know do you.
Kev
:roll: :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Come on Kev--what sort of argument is that --Are you saying that the Remoaners knew what they were voting against or were they voting blind :lol: :lol: You can't have it both ways !!!!

Of course the Leave voters knew what they were voting for----

they were voting for a proper immigration policy
they were voting to take back their powers that the EU had taken on
they voted for their own trade deals
they voted to give the NHS more money rather than money going to Poland and the likes
they were voting to enjoy bent cucumbers once again !! :lol: :lol:

I am not trying to wind anyone up--the Leavers have a vision--can't say the same about the Remoaners who behave like turkeys voting for Christmas :roll: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Re: Brexit

PostPosted:Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:23 pm
by pete evans
Does this so called "proper immigration policy" take into account immigration from commonwealth or non EU countries? What percentage is that at present?

Re: Brexit

PostPosted:Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:28 pm
by Burrababa
pete evans wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:23 pm
Does this so called "proper immigration policy" take into account immigration from commonwealth or non EU countries? What percentage is that at present?
Howdy partner!!! :D

I thought you had taken your ball home and did not want to play ?? :lol: :lol:

Re: Brexit

PostPosted:Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:47 pm
by Kinchy
Port Sunlight ( a delightful place) was built by Levers and part of the site was a temperance hotel - key word temperance - a decision of the builders, not the workers.
As for knowing what you voted for you didn’t know then and you don’t know now,

If you knew back then, you would be aware of the final settlement of the irish border, what trading deal we will have with europe and how much we might pay to trade with them if at all or if we were just going to leave Europe’s trading sector and just go straight to the back of beyond, but be honest you don’t know do you. You have hopes and dreams, I hope they come true, I’m sorry I’m not trying to insult you or wind you up.

That is so wrong
I and many of my leave voting friends anticipated that the EUSSR would play the best hard ball game they could muster. We were under no illusions that the bullies of Brussels would do everything in their powers to frustrate the UK (who had the audacity to vote to leave) in its efforts to break free from their cabal.
They were so confident that the voters of the UK would not dare to vote leave and their arrogance was expressed in the way that they treated "call me Dave" as he went around Europe with his begging bowl. This has massively backfired on the EUSSR.
I voted to leave the Single Market, I voted to Leave the strangulation of the Customs Union, I voted to save the UK £8 billion a year, I voted to keep immigration to a manageable number in order for the UK services to be able to plan for an influx of people equivalent to a city the size of Stoke on Trent every year.
When I say services not only the NHS education and housing but the costs for benefits that would be needed.
Ah, the good old hot potato of the Irish border. Varadkar said the UK were not the friends of RoI recently. In the past day or so he is back tracking faster than an Italian tank in ww2.
The Common Travel Agreement has been in place since 1923 - even used it many times myself when working in Belfast and Dublin.
Tell me who has said that with a hard border there will be a return to the violence of "the troubles". Only that prat with the bad hair style and funny teeth. Verhofwhatever. The RoI has to think very seriously about its positioning and its comments.
Don't forget that all trucks leaving or entering the RoI use the UK as a land bridge via England and Wales or via N Ireland into/from Stranraer, or face quite long sea journeys directly into France for their onward journeys into mainland Europe and vice versa
The UK and the RoI could easily arrive at a negotiated agreement on the unique circumstances faced on the island of Ireland BUT the RoI cannot because they are governed by their masters in Brussels.
One other point regarding your posting. What are the EUSSR going to pay the UK for access to the very lucrative UK market bearing in mind the £80 billion deficit in favour of the EUSSR?
Leave means leave and the sooner the better !

Re: Brexit

PostPosted:Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:53 pm
by Mrs Nelson
You brexiteers were voting for a set of negotiations to take place. How can you argue you knew how these talk would end. .?.

If these negotiations turn sour and prove to bear no fruit which they probably will given the record of the clowns running it, will you guys be honest and say yes that’s what I voted for ?

All these laws they impose on us, how much impact does it really have and will it have when they are gone, ok so we can deport a few bad apples, who will feel the impact of that ?

Remainers s on the other hand knew what they were voting for, to carry on as normal..

So god help us, let’s hope we get a good deal or a chance to reject a bad one .

I have not heard of a temperance hotel before but have googled it. , I’m going to suggest there where no bars because lever wanted to control his workers in an attempt for greater productivity. I doubt any working man would have been consulted over this and or voted for an alcohol free bar. :D

Re: Brexit

PostPosted:Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:29 pm
by Burrababa
Mrs Nelson wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:53 pm
You brexiteers were voting for a set of negotiations to take place. How can you argue you knew how these talk would end. .?.
  • Kev --you seem to think these negotiations will end in tears for UK ?? How do you know ?? LOL
:D :D

If these negotiations turn sour and prove to bear no fruit which they probably will given the record of the clowns running it, will you guys be honest and say yes that’s what I voted for ?

Kev--cross my heart --you have my word !! LOL :D :D :D

All these laws they impose on us, how much impact does it really have and will it have when they are gone, ok so we can deport a few bad apples, who will feel the impact of that ?

Kev--that is a no brainer mate --LOL :D :D :D

Remainers s on the other hand knew what they were voting for, to carry on as normal..

Kev--what is normal?? sleep walking into disaster ? LOL :roll:

So god help us, let’s hope we get a good deal or a chance to reject a bad one .

Kev--I believe for every drop of rain that falls
A flower grows
I believe that somewhere in the darkest night
A candle glows
8) 8) 8)


I have not heard of a temperance hotel before but have googled it. , I’m going to suggest there where no bars because lever wanted to control his workers in an attempt for greater productivity. I doubt any working man would have been consulted over this and or voted for an alcohol free bar. :D
Kev--God forbid--are you just trying to get out of buying me a beer !!! :D

Reminds me of a trip down under--I can empathize with this :wink: :wink: :wink:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E0aZ387M_I

enjoy :roll: :roll: :roll:

Re: Brexit

PostPosted:Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:10 pm
by Kinchy
I have not heard of a temperance hotel before but have googled it. , I’m going to suggest there where no bars because lever wanted to control his workers in an attempt for greater productivity. I doubt any working man would have been consulted over this and or voted for an alcohol free bar.

Check out Wikipedia.
Oh dear oh dear you insinuate that one of the greatest philanthropic families of the time built a village for workers without a pub so they could work their workers harder :oops:
No workers voted for this - what -, no probably not as they were more likely to be absolutely delighted for such a benevolent employer taking them out of disgusting housing.
Remainers s on the other hand knew what they were voting for, to carry on as normal..

Carry on as normal - what a joke
Is carry on as normal meaning the UK MUST accept Schengen?
Is carry on as normal meaning the UK must accept the Euro?
Is carry on as normal meaning the UK must agree to a national budget , imposed by the Brussels thugs?
Is carry on as normal meaning that the UK must accept that a single Brussels appointed Finance Minister to have control of the UK's finances?
Is carry on as normal meaning the UK must be part of the EUSSR Army?
Is carry on as normal meaning that the UK must go through the EUSSR bullies before it can speak to non EUSSR nations about bilateral trade deals?
Is carry on as normal meaning that all and sundry from the existing EUSSR states can wander into the UK and then the six proposed new members proposed by Jean Claude Drunker will also be allowed to hop on buses to London Victoria (particularly those from Albania)
Is carry on as normal meaning that the UK must adhere to the diktats of the EUSSR regarding the rate of Corporation Tax it sets in line with the rest of the EUSSR (except R o I of course at the moment)?
Aha - a new film" Carry on as Normal EUSSR" - a massive box office comedy or a horror story - probably both :shock:

Re: Brexit

PostPosted:Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:41 am
by soapydave
Negotiations, funny word that,
there can be two outcomes, favourable and un favourable,
there was a vote , before any negotiations ,
the negotiations have started, but no outcome reached as yet,
would favourable mean out,
and unfavourable mean stay in,
but no results of the NEGTIATIONS have been reached so who knows?

Re: Brexit

PostPosted:Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:21 am
by Mrs Nelson
I’m sorry guys, if you know what Brexit is, what it will be, tell us now,

if you knew what you were voting for, you would surely be able to meet this request. .?

are you really saying tony that we will feel the huge impact of creating our own laws, I can’t see it, we will adopt all current euro created law and over the next 100 years will cherry pick and prune, I don’t think we will feel it, maybe businesses who claim they are buried in red tape might benefit, but it’s unlikely that any savings will be passed to the consumer. Mechanization should make production cheaper, why are food portions shrinking while the price increases, look at a box of quality st, or a mars bar, tiny.

I’m not saying lord lever was totally self motivated kinchy, but I doubt that the workers where asked whether they wanted a pub on the site or not. It’s a lovely village, I’m sure it was like winning the lottery getting a house there.

Anyway, we are going over the same old ground, eventually we will find out what the negotiations you voted for produce, and hopefully have the right to embrace it or back heel it at some point.

Cheers

Kev

Re: Brexit

PostPosted:Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:42 am
by Jimbo1916
Mrs Nelson wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:21 am
food portions shrinking while the price increases, look at a box of quality st, or a mars bar, tiny.
The most pertinent thing you`ve said in this whole Brexit saga. :D

Re: Brexit

PostPosted:Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:02 pm
by Aviator
I've just come across an interesting Twitter thread about the concerns of real people whose lives are being impacted by Brexit. It appears that British expats who have lived, worked or run businesses in Germany for many years are becoming increasingly worried that the UK government is abandoning them.

See link:
https://twitter.com/robertkapok/status/ ... 3412054016