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Re: Serious flooding in Torrevieja

PostPosted:Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:52 pm
by Info
But isn't that Spain. Floods in the morning and sun and blue skies and beach in the afternoon.

Bee

Re: Serious flooding in Torrevieja

PostPosted:Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:43 pm
by Jimbo1916
Info wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:52 pm
But isn't that Spain. Floods in the morning and sun and blue skies and beach in the afternoon.

Bee
Not in Benferri. !!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater

Re: Serious flooding in Torrevieja

PostPosted:Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:02 pm
by Info
I don't know what time that was taken at John but the weather front has passed by now and normal weather has resumed. The sad thing is the authorities know that the river Seguro is in need of major dredging work due to the build up of silt but nothing much is being done to clean it out. Anyone thinking of buying on the Costa Blanca and inland should take note of where the worst flooding has been and make sure they keep well away from those areas.

Bee

Re: Serious flooding in Torrevieja

PostPosted:Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:33 am
by Beardyboy
Bee is absolutely correct and with the range of mountains running all the way from Murcia to Valencia, the land being massively overbuilt, all of our waste pumping into the sea..eventually, the sea has warmed and the air hits it and the result is what you have witnessed these past few days.

Like others, I think it is worse. Our Easter was a wash out, couldn’t leave the house. The polycarbonate roof was on it’s last legs and the rain poured in at a colossal rate. Fortunately, the house itself withstood the onslaught but the galley was given a massive spring clean! New roof on now but have no idea if it did it’s job as we are in a London where the weather is stupendous. Back to Northern Ireland tomorrow evening to Gods Own Country! Back to Spain on 24th to Gods own haven. Such a shame for all those unfortunate people whose homes are ruined and worse for the family who lost loved ones during the deluge.
Perhaps if people have lost a lot of household things we could all offer help.
I would certainly be more than happy to part with good quality bedding, some never used and towels too.

Re: Serious flooding in Torrevieja

PostPosted:Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:15 am
by Info
Yes Rosemary there are hardship cases from people who have lost everything. Those that are insured can claim from the special insurance fund for these types of disaster but I saw a very sad post on the Quesada forum about a woman who has lost everything and has no insurance. It would be nice to think that someone in the expat community might start a fundraiser for hardship cases like that. I know there are fraudesters who are bound to get on the bandwagon at times like this so everyone needs to be vigilant if they see anyone asking for money or goods that they are going to the right place.

Bee

Re: Serious flooding in Torrevieja

PostPosted:Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:14 am
by Tazzle
Mrs Tazzle has just returned from visiting friends who live in the campo near Catral.

On Friday they were ordered to evacuate the house as the Segura had burst it's banks. As they left the water level rose so quickly that they were wading waist deep in water as they made their way to the road. (By this time the car was flooded). Fortunately, they were rescued by boat and taken to a local school. Dry clothes, food and camp beds were being provided for the evacuees, but Mrs Tazzle and friends went to stay with Spanish friends in Dolores. There was flooding there too, but not as bad.

Yesterday they managed to to visit the house in Catral after wading through thigh deep water which contained raw sewerage. At least a foot of this dirty water had penetrated the house so you can imagine the devastation.

Fortunately a clearly traumatized Mrs Tazzle was able to return home yesterday evening, having had to leave most of her clothes behind. It will take weeks or months for those affected to get their lives back to normal. I can't help thinking of those with holiday homes in the area who are in for a real shock when they visit their properties!

Re: Serious flooding in Torrevieja

PostPosted:Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:06 pm
by Info
A nightmare of an experience. You just can't help thinking all that money that the government is going to have to pay out compensating those affected by the floods would have been better spent preventing the floods in the first place. Proper flood barriers and maintenance of the river bank of the Segura as it passes through all the towns and villages on its way to the sea would have saved all this heartache for people. They could bring in heavy machinery after the event so why couldn't it have been done before the damage occurred. There is a piece in Informacion re Urb El Paraiso in Torrevieja, which flooded during the storm last week and floods frequently when there is heavy rain, which says they have been asking for something to be done about proper drainage works for 28 years and its only now that works have been started.

Bee

Re: Serious flooding in Torrevieja

PostPosted:Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:57 pm
by Beardyboy
Well said Bee.

Re: Serious flooding in Torrevieja

PostPosted:Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:33 pm
by wingman
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. The dilemma is...how much money do you spend to defend ALL rivers, ramblas and alluvial plains against seasonal deluges? Who gets priority? Those areas that statistically get more ltrs/m2 rainfall or the victims of infrequent historical disaster?
Factors for the Segura is that it is classed as a river in a "state of semi permanent drought"...there's a shock! The last serious flooding was about 30 years ago.
It was at one time Murcias (and Spains) most polluted river and a lot of tributary clearance work was done, plus a load of filter stations built to catch treat and "run off" the waters...therefore increasing flow into the rio itself. The canal was built to Guardamar in the 2000s to join up all the meanders SW of Elche and allowed the successful run off of deluge water in 2016. In some respects the ability of the river and the meanders to "free up" cleansing flows of water from Murcia uplands down to Guardamar to combat pollution means it is probably a victim of the historical work.
The problem with defences...what level of defence do you need to combat 505lts/m2 in 36-48 hours?
What about the failure of farmers, authorities and industry to clear up debris and natural waste? Look at the number of bridges that became blocked by trees, logs and rubbish causing backfill and then overrun of upstream river banks?
Just a few thoughts...appreciate no solace though for those who have lost all and have weeks of anxiety getting back to normal. :(

Re: Serious flooding in Torrevieja

PostPosted:Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:38 pm
by Info
Wingman I don't think its hindsight if we learn from today to anticipate tomorrow using all the scientific and technological means at our disposal for climate forecasting. Granted there are far more droughts than floods in the vega baja but the floods cause much more damage. I see from today's paper that the blame game has begun and the Mayors of the many towns affected are blaming the CHS - Confederation Hidrografica del Segura - A bit rich really in my opinion as the Mayors are the ones who gave the green light by way of permission for all the building construction in areas which should never have been built on. It appears the water couldn't get to the sea at Guardamar due to some blockage or other. It doesn't say what blocked it.

Bee

https://www.diarioinformacion.com/alica ... 87199.html

also some sad images of householders in this link https://www.diarioinformacion.com/alica ... 87176.html

The Gota Fria in Alicante: The huerta loses 167 million and Segura collapses in Guardamar

The mayors of La Vega blame the CHS for the disaster at a meeting to look for solutions - The river has 4 breaks that will take 48 hours to repair and they propose to expand the drain to the sea for fear that the water will bounce and flood more of Guardamar
An article of d. pamies rubén miguez
The Segura River has once again claimed what is its own . And this time it has taken its time. Six days after the first torrential rains and despite the significant decrease in flow, water still extended yesterday through the orchards - causing 167 million in losses in agriculture - facilities and infrastructure before its mouth between San Fulgencio and Guardamar that did not work as it should
Even the stretch of the National 332 between both populations was affected by the overflow of the secular irrigation network, although the Civil Guard decided not to cut traffic, which continued slow while the water occupied the road. The only option not to leave half of the region incommunicado at the cost of generating miles of retention. Yesterday 20 roads in the region were closed to traffic
The Military Emergency Unit (UME) and the Hydrographic Confederation finally managed to contain and plug the two breached sections of the river between Algorfa and Almoradí. In the afternoon, in a tense meeting of administration officials (Generalitat and Consell) with the mayors it was learned that there are still four breaches left which it will take two days to repair. This meeting was called for an update from the Commissioner of Waters of the CHS, who according to councillors arrived an hour late to the meeting, for which he received the reproach of the consellera Gabriela Bravo and the consellera Mireia Mollà, said that the danger is not over. One of the most critical councillors in the meeting was the ouncillor of Guardamar, José Luis Sáez, who has seen since Sunday how the water level rose in the huerta without the water going to the sea. Apparently, the problem lies in the obstacles it encounters, something that the latter blamed on the CHS , openly and to all attendees. For this reason it was proposed to create a third way, between the two current ones (old and new channel) to try to alleviate the water flow. Yesterday there was fear of a rebound effect; that is to say, that the water and the mud that it drags will find less problem in returning to the huerta rather than in going out to the sea. Sáez, in statements to the newspaper, reproached the neglect of the CHS and blamed the basin agency, as other councillors did, for much of what is happening.

The nervousness among the mayors is obvious because their neighbours are also asking them to find solutions to their lives that continue with water up to their ankles four days after declaring the gota fria while no one dares to say the word everyone expects: there will be help . And everyone knows that one of the engines of the economy of the region, agriculture is very affected. The damages have been valued at 200 million euros in the Region, according to the Unió de Llauradors. Of them 167 in 25,000 hectares of the traditional orchard and by irrigation from the water transfer. The life of this region stopped last Thursday. Everyday gestures such as opening the tap or showering are still impossible. The supply of drinking water is interrupted in many populations.
The water spreads the feeling that this new flood has affected as usual the peripheral slums of some of the municipalities in the region. The humblest. Where they had to leave everything, with the water up to their waist so as not to lose their life as well. Also, and almost as a warning, in the new urban developments approved with all the fanfair during the time of the boom. Benfis Park in Benferri, razed by the monstrous avenue of the Rambla de Abanilla (a small little dry tributary of the Segura) that has caused the same damage as the Segura itself. The new urbanizations of Almoradí, which have expanded their urban center at the expense of the terraces. Or Montepinar, on the northern slope of the Orihuela mountain range, where the millions invested to redevelop and legalize homes have now been uprooted and buried in mud. The same sequence is repeated in hundreds of houses outside the garden where security forces had to rescue or evacuate thousands of people - around 300 are still relocated in makeshift shelters.
Normality will take weeks to recover. Infrastructure damage is in billions and one person is still missing (his body has since been recovered) . Until the river returns to claims its deeds again.

Re: Serious flooding in Torrevieja

PostPosted:Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:05 am
by tommyg01
freddo wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:32 pm
Well I do not think the rain has been as bad as last year I have photos somewhere of my garden being at least 15 inches of water today it is about 10 inches but I must say the Thunder and Lightning was better this year
Having just read through the local papers Freddo, about all the damage cause by the Gota Fria. Lives lost, homes destroyed and the worst storm since 1987. I think it's fair to say the water level in your garden, isn't a very accurate way to measure how strong a Gota Fria is.

Tom

Re: Serious flooding in Torrevieja

PostPosted:Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:31 pm
by wingman
Wingman I don't think its hindsight if we learn from today to anticipate tomorrow using all the scientific and technological means at our disposal for climate forecasting....sadly Bee what you alude is now foresight. My hindsight point was that the blame for not spending money is very difficult to quantify for the reasons I gave. Evidenced by the now blame game articles you have posted...the CHS were slated in the 90s for blocked tributaries and pollution...they spent millions...did what was requested. Developers moved in and over built on the Veja Baja...drainage planning was abismal in the face of quick profits (almost everywhere on the Costas - poor or non existent drainage) and now the result is chaos...notwithstanding the exceptional weather occurrence. Sadly, global modelling - now seen as flawed, will not predict an exceptional local weather event...there are over a thousand factors at play in atmospheric thermodynamics...these events will manifest if local conditions are in place. As always...the blame will always be somewhere else...I see Murcia and Valencia at loggerheads over whether or no the dam should have been opened... :|

Re: Serious flooding in Torrevieja

PostPosted:Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:44 pm
by Info
Apologies for misreading your message wingman. Yes there is now a petition with over 100 signatures to disband the CHS. The sad thing is from an article in today's paper that all was gained from the rainfall into the reservoirs was 50cubic mtrs (or whatever the measurement is) and some 2800 c ms were lost. The reservoirs are only 3% higher than this time last year. The good news is that they are going to use drones to do a radiografic mapping of the segura basin so that this never happens again i.e the water being blocked from making its way to the sea. I never realised that there are 3 big dams on the upper Segura. Also there is a renewal programme on the Segura to clean out the invasive cane weeds and invasive fish not native to the river and repopulate it with native flora and trees. The first 54kms are finished out of the 325 km length of the river. I hope the recent floods haven't ruined the completed section
Bee

Re: Serious flooding in Torrevieja

PostPosted:Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:11 pm
by Info
There is an announcement from the Generalitat that those affected by the floods will receive an initial payment of between €3,000 and €5,000 due to the shock they have suffered. The Ayuntamientos will receive funding to help people out with the basic necessities. They don't say how this money will be made available to people. The damage is estimated at €1.5 billion with agriculture and agrifood the worst affected.

Bee

Re: Serious flooding in Torrevieja

PostPosted:Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:13 pm
by retire1day
Nightmare neighbour above who won't maintain his property has water come down inside my place again. Maybe he reads this but I have informed him that I have reported this to the community, I will have someone conduct a report to show he us at fault, if the community or the useless pxxxx does not sort it I am willing to spend thousands taking him to court. Gloves are off.